Questions like this one don’t create any anxiety for me these days. I blame it on my creeping universalism.

By creeping universalism I mean this: I just can’t bring myself to believe in permanent divine punishment anymore. I know some people believe in it and I don’t begrudge them their beliefs — I just think they are wrong. Don’t misunderstand — I believe in divine justice. That is largely why I don’t believe in permanent punishment. If our souls are eternal I just don’t think there is anything we could do in 70 years here that would warrant infinite punishment. So I think people pay in some fashion for every sin they refuse to repent of; I just think that process won’t take forever. So when someone asks if I will end up in the highest kingdom of heaven (whatever that means) I feel confident in saying “yup”. I just think y’all will end up in the same condition too. (Heck, I now vaguely suspect we may have always been in that condition before our sojourn here on this planet as well…) That is what I mean by my creeping universalism. (more…)

What is a spirit? Joseph Smith talked a good deal about spirits and minds, but he never clearly articulated his view of what constitutes a spirit. This leaves us in an unfortunate position of trying to piece together what he must have believed about spirits from other things he said. On one hand, he was clear and consistent in asserting that spirits are co-eternal with God and have existed from all eternity. On the other hand, he used language that suggests an ontological dualism in which mind is a different sort of thing than matter. (more…)

Let’s imagine that there were a race of immortals. I mean real immortals that literally cannot die — not pseudo immortals we read about in fiction that are hard to kill but can die if you know the trick (decapitate, stake through the heart, burn, whatever). And by cannot die I mean they outlive every planet and every star. They are truly immortal with no beginning and no end. Now let’s further imagine that these immortals are vastly intelligent and they all have matching mental and physical potential and capacities, which capacities are far beyond our mortal human capacities. Further let’s imagine they live within the also-beginningless universe and that there are Universal laws by which they are bound.

Do you think it is safe to assume that this race of immortals would figure out how to be maximally happy over the infinite time they exist? I mean if they are that intelligent then it would be the reasonable thing for them to do after all. (more…)

[Haven’t done a poll in a bit. John C. didn’t do one this week, so thought, ah, why not?]

Our scriptures tell us that there is only one God.

32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. (Mark 12: 32-34)

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus (1 Tim. 2: 5)

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. (1 Cor. 8: 6)

for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth. (1 Ne. 13: 41)

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This post was an experiment in whether concentrating on the issues in my previous post would enable me to better put forth a discussion of the atonement. Your input and thoughts are greatly appreciated.

First to give context, I recently read a blog post about a “Reductio ad Hitlerum” film put on by BBC regarding the problem of Evil [1]. At the same time, I was listening to the Book of Job on my commute to work, slowly working my way through the Old Testament for the first time. As I dealt with these two items simultaneously, it renewed my interest in the way the church has dealt with the problem of suffering and evil. It is my opinion that the Church uses its particular theological tenants regarding the Atonement and the way things are as our own theodicy, and that this theodicy is strong.

Now perhaps theodicy is the wrong word, some may argue, but here I am taking theodicy to simply mean a defense of God’s goodness and justice in the face of the existence of evil [2]. And again, perhaps atonement is the wrong word, as this can sometimes be construed to mean everything between the act in Gethsemane and the entirety of the Plan of Salvation. [3] For my purposes here I am going to initially begin by framing the problem in the whole of the plan and hopefully drill down to examine the event in Gethsemane in context of that plan.
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Today I went back and read a few old posts, and a few things became apparent.
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Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen. (D&C 28:10)

thus becoming the Father and Son— And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth. (Mosiah 15: 3-4)

There isn’t much question that our scriptures, both ancient and modern, speak of multiple divine persons unifying to make up the great One God. So if two or three divine person can unify to make up the One God what is the maximum number? Seems to me that there is none…

I have been thinking about the implications of Joseph Smith insisting that we as individuals are co-eternal with God. Joseph used the terms “spirits” and “intelligences” interchangeably. Lots of effort has been spent by Mormon thinkers and leaders since then to undo or explain away Joseph’s thoughts on that. I think that is because the idea of us having “whole cloth” beginningless spirits as opposed to having some kind of a beginning is both hard to comprehend and damaging to a lot of our traditional theological assumptions. I wrote a post about some of those problems here. There are several theological theories in Mormonism that assume we do indeed have a beginning. There is the whole viviparous spirit birth theory that nowadays usually tracks to the tri-partite intelligence->spirit->physical body model introduced by BH Roberts. Before that Brigham Young and Orson Pratt liked the spirit particles model. (See our previous Spirit/Intelligences discussions here) The Young/Pratt version assumes just our parts are eternal, not our current spirits. The Roberts model assumes our spirits are not eternal but we have an eternal “intelligence” that powers our spirit body that powers our physical body.

Anyway, if we assume for this post that Joseph meant it when he called spirits eternal and that he never intended to say there is a difference between spirits and intelligences, we have interesting theological possibilities we are left with. It makes me think of the well known verse of scripture:

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? (John 10: 34)

So here is my meandering end to a meandering post: What do you think beginningless spirits would do to provide some variety to their endless life and stay diverted and busy forever? I must admit that I have been wondering recently if boredom alleviation is an eternal principle …

Ok, If you’ve been around a while, you know that I’ve never had a philosophy lesson in my life, and that I am pretty ignorant on these sorts of things. But I’m trying to get better and I’ve recently discovered the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, and am learning, but have some questions.
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I face sort of an odd situation in my life. You see, I don’t believe the future exists yet, nor do I believe it can be clearly or completely determined, and yet some of what I would consider my highest level spiritual experiences had to do with God giving me what seemed like foreknowledge of the future.

To illustrate, I will provide two examples.

1st, perhaps one of the most life changing dreams I’ve ever had was about my teenage daughter, 6 years before she was born. She’s four now. (or one depending on which girl it was I dreamed of. They look almost alike in many ways, and the dream was a long time ago.) The dream changed my life in that I fell in love with my daughter in that dream, and so decided to have children. (Which I had previously been against.)

2nd, When I was deciding whether or not to be baptised, I felt an impression of the way my life would go if I followed the path of the gospel, especially regarding who I would marry. Just before I got baptised, this woman made it very clear that she would NEVER marry me. This led me to have a momentary crisis in my fledgling faith where I was uncertain of the communication I had received or that I had even received communication. Then through a spiritual experience I have elsewhere described, and through a decison I had to believe in the communications from God those experiences represent, I went ahead and was baptised. Now that woman and I have been married for almost six years. This crisis of faith, I believe, was critical to my conversion process, as it taught me to walk by faith and how to “put things on the shelf”. Further it confirmed to me I was joining the church for myself and not just another pretty face.

So there you have it. I still don’t believe the future exists, but I do believe God does, in a way beyond my comprehension, have an understanding of my life that enables him to effectively interact with me and help me to see my future, even though it does not exist.

Let’s assume for the sake of this post that God exists and that he’s good. In this context, the problem of evil starts to look rather like our complaining about how God does his job. This got me to thinking:

Just what do you think God should be doing? Specifically. (more…)